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squigy,
it is my personal experience that "acting out" is something survivors do in response to the subconscious cues of our abuse to current situations. by way of explanation, this past summer i was frog deep in a depression that i could not understand. there was no current situation that warrented any kind of negative response. i was confused, depressed, and angry without knowing why. i engaged in a behavior that would have cost me the love of lady theo had it gone any further than it did. i only learned later that what i was responding to were the anniversaries of some very painful memories involving the loss of my son, the loss of my previous life, and the loss of the only family i ever knew. i was acting out against something i could not see or understand. somehow i think i might be making this more confusing then it needs to be. acting out is any behavior a survivor engages in as a response to old pain that it is making itself felt in the here and now. i think i better stop here before it gets any more convoluted :D . hoped i helped at least a little.
 
As a therapist working with both sexual abusers and male survivors, I use the term "acting out" to refer to behaviors that people do to take their feelings out on people or property. Acting out, acting in, or numbing out are referred to as compensatory behaviors (compensating for something that has been done to you or for something that you feel should have happened but didn't.) Here is a part of an assignment I give to some people regarding compensatory behaviors:

Compensatory behaviors are negative behaviors that usually make the person feel better for a short time but are not really helpful to change the trigger feelings.
These compensatory behaviors are taking the feelings out on other people or property (acting out), taking them out on yourself (acting in), or doing something to block out the feelings in a way that is really not good for you (numbing out).
For example, say you had a tough day at work where your boss didnt like the way you did something and he criticizes you in front of your co-workers. You might come home and snap out at your kids. This is acting out, taking out your feelings on another person. You can act out by words (ridiculing, cursing, insults), physical aggression or violence against people or things, or sexually abusing someone.
Acting in means taking out those feelings out on yourself. Take the example above. Instead of taking it out on your kids, suppose you went home and put yourself down by calling yourself a loser who is incompetent or worthless, and basically just feeling sorry for yourself. In some cases, people will do things to hurt themselves as a way of acting in. This can be done by punching a wall, cutting or burning yourself, or, in extreme cases of acting in, suicide.
Some people will numb out the feelings they dont want to have. This can be done with alcohol, drugs, as well as other activities which are not necessarily bad in small doses. It is obvious that getting drunk or stoned will numb out the unwanted feelings, but what about using tv or video games to excess (that is, spending hours doing this to block out feelings and thoughts)? People can also use sex (including masturbation), exercise, food, pornography, or work in excessive amounts as a means of getting rid of these feelings. When you stop the numbing out behavior, the problem is still probably there and the feelings will probably come back.
This is a small piece regarding the concept. If you have other questions about it, I'll be happy to respond.

Ken
 
As an afterthought, sometimes people will refer to behaviors such as sexual acts like going to an adult bookstore for anonymous sex or compulsive masturbation as "acting out". That is a different use of the term than from what I use for a compensatory behavior. While it is technically acting out fantasies or needs for control (or being controlled), it is probably more of a numbing out behavior than taking out the feelings on another person. (In other words, being harmful or hurtful to another person for that purpose. Certainly, one can make a case for sexual acting out as being harmful to one's spouse or partner, but if you look at the intent, is it to hurt the other or to numb out pain in one's life? Sometimes it takes on both roles.)

The differences can be confusing and I don't mean to split hairs here. Suffice to say, whether it is a numbing out or acting out behavior, the end result is one that is disempowering to the individual rather than empowering him in his recovery.

Ken
 
Well I dont have the insite that Ken does (Thanks for your insite Ken). But I'm going to give my thoughts no this question. Acting out=what we as survivor's do/Abusing=what was done to us. Lots of us hate our abusers so much that thinking of ourselves as one as well would probley be just to much to bear. On the home page abuse is defined as
Sexual abuse - Any sexual act between an adult and child. This includes fondling, penetration, intercourse, exploitation, pornography, exhibitionism, child prostitution, group sex, oral sex, or forced observation of sexual acts.
So you tell me the differnce between "Acting out" and "Abusing". After all if we are survivor's how can we be abuser's as well? Just my thoughts on it.
James
 
Len,
man-o-man... I love the question you posed. I'm not sure if you built up to it deliberately, or arrived there by accident, BUT...it is a question I have posed in the past with much less skill, craft and diplomacy than you have exhibited in this thread.
In my opinion, we are completely responsible for all acting out, acting in, numbing out behaviours, without exception.

Ok so if i'm getting what you mean about calling ourselves abusers as opposed to saying we were acting out, it raised a question. So if we are to say we are just acting out, then wouldn't the same go for our so called abusers? As you know in my case my cousin was also likely abused. so was he just acting out?
I guess if you are on the receiving end of the abuse, you might be reluctant to excuse the behaviour as acting out. But, it is probable that your cousin was sexualized at a young age and therefore was acting out and responding to his own anger and confusion.

These are some very provocative questions you are asking Len. Peace, Andrew
 
Right Len.........Andrew brought up a very good point.....does it depend on which end we are on as to what it is called? If we are on the reciveing end then it's abuse.........if we are giving it then it's acting out....so what does this say to people who "acted out" with us. And what does it say to those who we "abused". So is acting out ok and abusing not? or are both just as bad and we are just sugar coating one of the phrases. For me I've done somethings in my past Im not proud of, however.........I've never called it anything but what it is ABUSE peroid...So maybe what the problem is isnt that we call it "acting out" but we are in denial as to what it really is. Read the way it is defined again........doesnt leave alot of room open to wonder if what you have done is "acting out" or "abuse" does it? How can we truly heal if those of us guilty of "acting out" keep lieing about what it really was? Seems to me that on this road of recovery honesty (at least to yourself) is a big part of it.
James
 
James, Len, Theo & all,
I don't know for sure, but I suspect that there is a razor thin line between a lot of these terms and definitions i.e acting out, acting in, numbing out etc. I'm not even sure that I want to know the defining differences because that might force me to label myself and/or see myself differently than what I see right now, and that would be hugely uncomfortable.

Having done all those things (acting out/in,numbing), as well as disassociating, I can easily rationalize that all these responses were expected because I was victimized as a child. But the truth is, sometimes I did these things just because I wanted to, or because I was a jerk i.e. hurt people, got drunk, or acted sexually irresponsibly. And the truth is: I am responsible for my behaviours and whatever labels I accrue as a result. Tough to say, but true.

The bottom line is: Society couldn't give a shit about what happened to me as a kid. They see the adult and make a judgement as to whether his behaviours are good, bad or whatever. Our worth, goodness and badness is judged by society's standards not the standards of the MS discussion forum.

Peace, Andrew
 
Len

At what point in our recovery do we have to accept responsiblity for our actions?
Good question, and a hard one.

I think it's one the very first things we have to do.
But - a big but - is we have to ACCEPT responsibility. Your choice of words was just right.

By accepting that responsibility I think we then begin to think a bit more clearly about the 'trigger - response - actions" cycle than we could when we didn't accept responsibility.

By that I mean that before I started any kind of recovery I would go through the whole acting out cylce without any remote idea of what was actually happenening and why. I was on some kind of auto-pilot, and I had no choice but to accept the inevitability of what was happening to me.

Once I started recovery I accepted my responibilty for certain aspects - acting out with other guys was the main one, it had driven me to being suicidal so I needed to do 'something'.
So I accepted that "I" acted out, and that "only I" could actually stop doing it.

It wasn't the instant cure I hoped for, but as the urge faded, or should I say became more controlable, I also accepted that it wasn't easy - sometimes I would fail - but it was GETTING EASIER.

"Accepting my responsibilty" was for me, getting rid of the guilt and shame.

Dave
 
Len, this is a thread with many questions and distinctions in it.

CSA occurs when an adult uses his/her power to, make us in some way, experience sex against our will--it is not our choice.

The acting out that is eating way too much, or being a drunk as opposed to being alcoholoic is something quite different. We are not using or abusing another person, nor are we forceing booze down someone else's throat for example.

We also use the word acting out for what is promiscuous and irresponsible sex between consenting adults. But, I think that we usually also say that there is some definite link to our past abuse that leads us to act this way. We have men here who were never sexually assaulted as a child, but who have been raped as an adult--often under threat of violence and with the victim being alone against two or more perpetrators.

The porn business in the USA is a multi-billion $$$$ industry. Surely, not all the folks paying money to look at porn are survivors. But survivors may look at porn for different reasons than say a man who had not been abused but likes to look at the girls.

Looking at porn solely to get the energy to masturbate would seem to me to be more a sexual disfunction. But, again, it might be that survivors do that because of conflicted feelings about sexuality, or the inability to have intimate relationships with another person.

Dave made a huge point. Taking responsibility for our actions should lead to our having less shame and guilt. And not acting so complusively either, I feel.

I am not sure what the number of years in age makes an act no longer just "kids messing around," versus an older child, who is still a minor, but still legally abusing a younger child by overpowering the child in some way.

Power seems to be the most important word when we think of something being abuse--physical, mental sexual, or even financial.

When I hear men here speak of their "acting out" they are not overpowering some less powerful person. The acting in seems to be harming ourselves because we feel we are such bad people. Personally, I think that is more mental illness than a freely willed act of punishing ourselves--but I could sure be wrong there.

I have rarely seen a compulsive over-worker admit that he or she is "acting out" anything. They have some need to put in 14 or 16 hour days and find it nearly impossible to take two consecutive weeks of vacation. But, I am a guy who does that at times. And I am aware that I keep busy simply because there is something that my mind wants me to think about and I refuse to allow the mental state needed to give serious thought to it.

Using power to harm a weaker person seems the most important element in abuse from what I understand.

Bob
 
This is always a controversial subject - but I do believe it is an imperitive one if we want to truly stop the cycle of abuse.

Despite the difficulty and pain (and god knows I can't do it with my own abuser,) we as survivors have to admit that sexual abuse begets sexual abuse, and therefore, many abusers have learned that behavior from somewhere. Murderers, rapists - hell, bankrobbers! - don't just fall out of the sky to spread their evil around the world!

I think that many people have a difficult time accepting that someone can hurt someone else, admit it, determine what the root cause was, and still accept responsibility and punishment for his or her actions. On both sides of the coin. People either want to label them evil and say things like, "Well, my dad hit me and I never grew up to be a serial killer." Or the more liberal side where they think that there should be no penalty whatsoever. There has to be treatment and real understanding, and that takes work and time and compassion and it forces people to take a look at the fact that what happens to you when you are a child affects you in profound ways as a teen and adult.

Sorry, this subject always fires me up.

-Sean
 
I have a hard time building an opinion between acting out and abuse. For one thing, I was abused, but my abuser was actually a year younger than me. He most likely was acting out, because he tried to perform the same acts with most of the kids in the neighborhood. Some of them rejected, and some were unfortunate and he threatened us with a gun to the head or a sword to the throat. He threatened us. I was afraid for my life, so I did what he said, no matter how sick it made me feel. Now, I don't mean to offend anyone, but I believe he was an abuser. Sure, he may have been "acting out", but there was a definite element of abuse involved ALSO.
Acting out, in my opinion, can only go so far. When you threaten a person's life, that definitely turns out to be abuse in my book.
 
The terms are not all that important. It is like sexual addiction or sexual compulsion. Doctors argue over them, but in the end the effect on your life is the same. Regardless of what we call it, we all have symptoms and things we do as the result of what was done to us.

I have started using acting out, because before I kept calling my childhood sexual encounters relationships. Encounter makes it seem lighthearted and fun, or too abstract. It doesnt capture the darkness of it somehow. Relationship definitely is wrong, because children dont have sexual relationships. A relationship is something the people involved choose, and when I was molested or when I passed that on to others there was no choosing with understanding. It was acting out for lack of a better word.

I guess the reason it is important to me to make that separation is that I need to stop taking all the responsibility on my self. It is important that I look at those things as a response to being molested, not as relationships I chose to be in.

When I molested, abused, passed on what I was shown, I justified it as a relationship or encounter, but that wasnt it. I felt I needed to make that distinction in my own mind, because distorted views of the facts kept me locked into where I was. Rationalizing and distorting the truth are what we do to deal with painful things that we cant face. Only by facing those demons can we heal, in my opinion, and I am trying hard to call black, black and white, white now.

i have started to realize a health child would run or tell if someone aproached them with sex. those that i molested, acted out with, whatever, most likely had thier own issues going on. with the girl i acted out with when i was ten for example, we were sexual for two years. clearly she was there for her own reasons, acting out just as i was.

i used to call that my first relationship, but we were there for love, affection of longterm, we were there to be sexual, period. it is important in my recovery to quit thinking theses were relationships, and to label them soemthing else. i guess acting out was what my doctor called them, so i use it.
 
this thread has way too many fine points to truly respond coherently right after you wake up, so i will limit myself to a few comments only :) . acting out, reponsibility, and possible equivelance with our abusers are three very different things in my opinon. while it is definitely true that we are to take responsibility for our own actions (such as my irresponsibility this past summer) there is a difference between acting out and our perps. that difference is the intent of the action and what it is sourced from. i was making a bad choice in my behavior this past summer then it got out of my control in a very serious way that all most cost me lady theo. that first decision to respond to the depression that way was the action i was responsible for. the intent was to escape from something i could not understand. the intent of perps is not escape it is coercion and power. when a person is coercive, forcing another to do something they would not otherwise do, that is abuse, not acting out. it can be said that our acting out is a form of seeking power, but there is a huge difference between trying to regain power for self through self then it is in seeking power over another. it is not the same by a long chalk. acting out is something we do to escape something we do not understand and we are respnsible for bad choices. trying to coerce someone into something is entirely different. take care, all.
 
I don't feel that my acting out is not abusive, in fact I'm heatedly aware of the effects of my abuse; on my wife, myself, whatever. However, the distinction of terms, or maybe more correctly, the importance of using the term "acting out" in addition to abuse, is to clarify that the subject of that behavior is aware and in some way dealing with his issues. He is taking responsibility for his behavior and admitting to himself (at the very least) that he has a significant problem. Abuse on its own strikes me as most often being used to describe another's behavior. I smile sardonically at the thought of my perp describing his molestations as either abusive or acting out. What a lovely thought. Makes me laugh, truly. He saw himself as a victim of, in his words, a horribly abusive and overbearing father (note: abuse describing another's behavior), and only described his relations with me and his obsessions with other children as "caring" and "deep friendship". I never saw the feintest glimmer of self-doubt or reflection. Not unlike Michael Jackson. In fact the similarities are frightening.

This isn't to say a full blown perp couldn't be someone in therapy who describes his behavior to himself as acting out, but it feels wrong doesn't it? It's almost impossible to imagine. Like a bad movie villain, who begs the cops to stop him before, gasp "he kills again." I'd be curious to hear from the pros on this site, whether that's a low-occuring type of perp.

anyway, my two cents. this thread has had some awesome contributions. really got me thinking. thanks.
 
Hi.

Thanks for posting this question. I am not a therapist, so my opinion is only based on what I have learned in therapy with particular therapists and from the couple of dozen books I've read. (I travel - a lot - for work, and have seen 10 therapists in 4 countries).

When I have asked about acting out behaviors, they all gave me a definition that includes all of the behaviors refered to in this thread.

I was told that "acting out is any behavior that is done in an attempt to numb/negate/ or otherwise disown a feeling that comes up". (To avoid the discomfort of the feelings that come up as we move through space, and having to feel them). "A feeling we don't want to feel - so we act out to avoid feeling it - dealing with it as a reality". This includes numbing, suicidal behaviors, and harming any other person. It is "an act done by people in order to avoid feeling the discomfort of something that we don't want to feel".

As far as I have learned, acting out can include everything from; physically harming someone to demeaning someone to ignoring someone to ignoring someone's feelings in one's actions (abuse); - as well as physically harming your own body and demeaning and ignoring yourself and your feelings; to ritual numbing behaviors (cutting, sexual acting out, anorexia or over eating). It is "a behavior that gives a false sense of security/power about something that we don't feel that secure about" was how one therapist put it.

It is an "act done to yourself or others that avoids healthy expression of (sometimes terrifying and angry) feelings".

As I said, I am not trained in this field. This is what I have been taught by the therapists I have worked with, and have learned from the books I have read.

I think it is true; although I admit that what I think does not, in reality, make things so. But I have also experienced acting out. So I communicate from experience - which gives my thoughts meaning. I have never hurt anyone else. The harm I have done to myself has never had any outward signs. But I can imagine what it might be like to hurt someone and/or hurt myself. So from that I know that it can, and therefor must be a truth. It might even be a fact as well.

The only way I find the emotionally honest way of forgiving the dozens of men who abused me is that I assume they were acting out in their using me for their numbing out choices/actions. That they did it to me is a fact. That they took away my ability to experience anything as I moved through space for 25 yeras is also a fact. That they rendered me unable to learn (absorb things) is the biggest fact that makes me the saddest. That they were using me as an object to numb out on - as an acting out tool for things they could not face - is the only emotionally honest way I can forgive them.

Gosh, I didn't mean to go on. I have heard of so much acting out, it makes me very sad. Harmful to themselves (internally or externally), and sometimes others. It makes me very sad. Sad for them that they had to do that. Sad that abuse cycles bring about the need for escape. But I have also seen that emotion tinged with conscience has been so powerful and effective. I have witnessed such incredible growth when seeing that from the abused I have known. When, in one group I was in, people were given facts devoid of emotion, I have seen too many times, men stop and never move on. It's a toughie, like everything I've ever encountered worth knowing about.

Thanks for the question.
 
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