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GoFigure12
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- Thread starterGoFigure12
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First off welcome to Male Survivor, here you'll find people who understand and will support you in quest to sort all of this stuff out. I too was abused when I was 13 by my older brother who was 16 1/2. Ever since it started I isolated myself and almost feel like 15 years ago my life was put on hold and hasn't been resumed since.
My brother also used coerion, implied threats, and a younger brothers admiration to abuse me.
My brother also used coerion, implied threats, and a younger brothers admiration to abuse me.
I am amazed at the similarities in stories on this board. I believe it has helped me on the road to recovery.
I also started a second career this year. What I found was that in my first career I didn't have time to think about things, so I liked that. But now, in my new job, I have time and things started coming out!
You will be fine! Just keep talking about it.
I also started a second career this year. What I found was that in my first career I didn't have time to think about things, so I liked that. But now, in my new job, I have time and things started coming out!
You will be fine! Just keep talking about it.
It is amazing how it affects your life. I also felt dirty. I never felt good enough for my wife and after I did tell her, I wondered how she couldn't see me as different. She used love's eyes and I never understood that. I am just now getting to where I can stand the person in the mirror. I am just now believing that it wasn't my fault and that I was a victim. It has affected my life negatively, but if I can keep up the momentum, I could change myself and my life for the better by having some self esteem instead of no self esteem. Being able to sound off to others is great therapy. Please keep it up.
melliferal
Registrant
I get it. You read stories in various media of truly horrific abuse; people who were seriously hurt physically, or develop crippling emotional and mental problems. When you compare your own situation with them, your "abuse", such as it is, seems trite - you feel almost as if you're doing a disservice to those victims by even calling your situation "abuse".
The whole orgasm thing, or the idea of experiencing a "pleasurable" sensation while the abuse is occuring can really screw with your head, too - you get the feeling that if you weren't running away screaming from it, then it wasn't really abuse; or that perhaps it was abuse, but the fact that you didn't run away means there's something wrong with you.
But actions and autonomic reactions aren't abusive in and of themselves. People engage in sexual activity every day, all over the world, with no issues. What makes it abuse is the context - the fact that it's a situation of a person in a position of (even merely "perceived") authority imposing upon or manipulating a subordinate. That's all that's necessary.
Take my pathetically trifling "abuse". I was not raped, beaten, bound, roughed, molested or otherwise "touched" by any adults or older kids; I was merely made to do things with a couple of other kids because their mother and father (yes, both of them) apparently liked to watch and make videotapes. Eventually there was a point at which me and the other vics didn't have to be asked; we just started doing it while one of the perps ran off to get the camera. Abusive? I didn't think so at the time, and for a long time afterward. But eventually I came to my senses. Why was it abusive? Because it was people in a position of authority manipulating me into doing something I wouldn't have been doing otherwise. The fact that, if you saw those videos, you wouldn't see me being scared, sad, or trying to get away, kept me quiet about the situation for a long, long time. I was afraid that somebody would see them, and conclude that "it obviously wasn't abusive", or even that I was sick or something.
And in my opinion (perhaps I'm alone in this one), you aren't a victim. You were one once, while you were being abused. Once the abuse stopped, you were no longer a victim - you became something else. I suppose "survivor" is a good enough word to use. I think it's important not to keep yourself in the "victim mindset".
The whole orgasm thing, or the idea of experiencing a "pleasurable" sensation while the abuse is occuring can really screw with your head, too - you get the feeling that if you weren't running away screaming from it, then it wasn't really abuse; or that perhaps it was abuse, but the fact that you didn't run away means there's something wrong with you.
But actions and autonomic reactions aren't abusive in and of themselves. People engage in sexual activity every day, all over the world, with no issues. What makes it abuse is the context - the fact that it's a situation of a person in a position of (even merely "perceived") authority imposing upon or manipulating a subordinate. That's all that's necessary.
Take my pathetically trifling "abuse". I was not raped, beaten, bound, roughed, molested or otherwise "touched" by any adults or older kids; I was merely made to do things with a couple of other kids because their mother and father (yes, both of them) apparently liked to watch and make videotapes. Eventually there was a point at which me and the other vics didn't have to be asked; we just started doing it while one of the perps ran off to get the camera. Abusive? I didn't think so at the time, and for a long time afterward. But eventually I came to my senses. Why was it abusive? Because it was people in a position of authority manipulating me into doing something I wouldn't have been doing otherwise. The fact that, if you saw those videos, you wouldn't see me being scared, sad, or trying to get away, kept me quiet about the situation for a long, long time. I was afraid that somebody would see them, and conclude that "it obviously wasn't abusive", or even that I was sick or something.
And in my opinion (perhaps I'm alone in this one), you aren't a victim. You were one once, while you were being abused. Once the abuse stopped, you were no longer a victim - you became something else. I suppose "survivor" is a good enough word to use. I think it's important not to keep yourself in the "victim mindset".
My Older Brother of 2 Years Did The Same thing to me .I Was 10 Or 11 dont Recall...So Many Confuse Feelings At That Age..Our Dad Caught Him Doing Me Once..We Got Yelled At..It Was All My Fault..Then It Was Swept Under The Rug..I Had Problems In School..Failed 2 Grades... They Sent Me To A Shrink..No One Could Figure Out My Problem..I Was Isolated In My Mind..I Had No Friends..I Felt So Different But Did Not Know Why...so As Time Went on I got Older..i Had No Social Skills.Couldnt Relate To Girls..I Wanted To Yet I Was So Afrade of them...I Had No Self Confidance...Didnt Know What Self Esteme Was...I Was Just Trying To Get By....I Found Pot...That Was my Escape...Got Stoned All Of The Time..Quit High School...Went To Boston Mas.Hung Out With the Hippies Getting High...Tried A Few Girls It Didnt Work Out...So At This Time I Could Relate To The Hippies As A Outcast..Not Really Realizing Why I Felt Like A Outcast...Never really Stayed At A Job For Long..Or In One Place...Started Drinking A Lot..So For Quite A Few Years i Stayed Stone and Drunk...Almost Killed Myself At Age 20 On A motorcycle...I Still Think It Was A Subconcious Thing..Yet Lived Through It...So I Am At The Bottom...What To Do next..I hated Myself And Could Not Figure Anyone Could Like Me...I Thought I Was Gay...Met Up With A Younger Guy..We Shacked up For A Few Years...I Figured This Was Better Than Nothing///...As He Was Very Abusive Physical And Verbal...But I Put Up With It...Getting Older..Quit Pot As Most Jobs Drug Test Today And I Needed Some Kind Of A Job....Started Drinking Less....Finally Realized This Relationship Was Bad For Me....So I Left And left Everything I Worked For.....Wandered Around For The Next Few Years Lost....No Direction No purpose in Life...Started Drinking Real Bad And Doing Sleeping Pills....Wanting To Die So Bad...Yet Didnt have the Nerve...Right Around this Time I Was Hit With Memories Of My Childhood Sex With My Brother....Where Did This Come From....Never Thought About It For Years..Then Bang There It Is In My Mind....Now Cant get Rid Of It or The Immages....WFT is GOING on...I am SUCH a BAD person.....I Didnt have the Nerve To Do myself In..I Wallowed In My Self Pitty For A While....I Was Pressuring Myself...I need To Do Something...But Waht? Went To A church Talked To a Man Of The Cloth ...Told Him Most Of This....He Said The First Thing i need To Do Is Get Back To Work ...To Support myself And Take Care of My Self..Then We Work on The Other Stuff....Of Coarse At This Time i am Feeling real Low About myself....so I Found A Job Went To Work....Didnt Feel Any Better..... Then I Quit Drinking...Alltogether....Things In My Life Were Still Confusing Yet Things Were Getting Clearer...What To Do I Had A Big Anger issue...My emotions Were Of A Child..I had No Friends...This Was Getting To Be A Big pain In The Butt...Got Fired from Work Due To my Anger Issues..And how I See Things the Wrong Way..And How I Feel Everyone is Out To Get Me...Started Seeing A Shrink...he Helped Me A Lot..He Showed Me Ways To See my Crazey Thinking And Ways to Challange Them And Correct Them...So I Am Doing Better..Can Keep A job Now Can Relate A Little With Coworkers.Feel Some What ok About Myself.....I Live By Myself Now...Have Done so For The Last 6 Years....I feel This is the Best Way..Never Had Childern...Which is Probley Good As I Would Have Screwed That Up..Beinging The Way I Was...I Now Regret A Lot Of Things..As It Would Have Been Nice To have A Family..To Feel Love Ect Yet I Know That Wasnt Possible THe Scarey Thing is Getting Old By Myself..With Out Many Friends Or Relatives..To Help Me Out If I May Ever Need It.....Sorry For Going On For So Long....All Of You Fathers Count Your Blessing For The Gift Of Love And Childern Sorry To Get of Topic I Have Been Meaning To Post Here Before Yet This Post Struck A Nerve And Got Me On a Roll
An orgasim does not make you a particapant. Studies show that even under extreme duress, your body will respond to physical stimulation. The fact the orgasim was so intense was most likely your bodies was of protecting you from what was going on. You had to have a release from the horror going on, and it was through an orgasim. I have done a lot of studying to understand how I could be a victim. I am starting to believe. For as different as all of our stories are, it is remarkable how similar they are too. Don't put stock in an orgasim. If orgasims were meant to be reached, none of us would have been born with hands!! Stay strong and good luck!!!
The orgasm isn't the issue. Although I felt the same way. When someone older is manipulating you, you are only responding to their attack.
You don't know any better, they are older, they know what is right and wrong. That is what you tell yourself.
I reached orgasm and felt pleasure when being abused by my grandfather. I almost went to another place in my head. After I reached puberty, I just went out of my body and I agree with bc22, my body was allowing me to escape the horror.
There is no blame on our end! I truly believe that after reading all these stories. Keep telling yourself that......I believe in Sin.....it isn't my sin, it was my Grandfathers, and God can deal with him!
I am forgiving him and forgetting he existed. I gave him almost 30 years of my mind, and it is time that my mind and thoughts were my own!
You keep focused on you! Keep focused on moving forward...it will be hard, but worth it!!!
You don't know any better, they are older, they know what is right and wrong. That is what you tell yourself.
I reached orgasm and felt pleasure when being abused by my grandfather. I almost went to another place in my head. After I reached puberty, I just went out of my body and I agree with bc22, my body was allowing me to escape the horror.
There is no blame on our end! I truly believe that after reading all these stories. Keep telling yourself that......I believe in Sin.....it isn't my sin, it was my Grandfathers, and God can deal with him!
I am forgiving him and forgetting he existed. I gave him almost 30 years of my mind, and it is time that my mind and thoughts were my own!
You keep focused on you! Keep focused on moving forward...it will be hard, but worth it!!!
I feel that it is possible for you, as you stand and breathe now, to recognize and full accept what has happened to you as abuse and understand yourself to be the victim of it while it was happening.......
while at the same time the Inner Child inside may not be entirely sold on the whole notions.
Recognizing something as abuse seems to horrifically color even the memory of the actual happenings in some people. All conflicted feelings seem to dissiapate and the whole experiences of the past is seen as ugly and baneful. For other people, though, I feel that from the time of conscious recognition onward, your take on the actual experiences can be reshaped into the reality of what it really was while the possible conflicted feeling one may have had prior to this conscious awakening remain.
What is sick to me is what leads to these types of situations happenning in the first place. I don't judge you your sexual "fantasies?". Not sure if that is the word I would use. Sounds more like a type of reliving the experience complete with the orgasm you originally experienced. And people here have already offered wonderful insights into putting the reaching of orgasms during sexual abuse in its proper perspective.
Stay Strong, Survivor
while at the same time the Inner Child inside may not be entirely sold on the whole notions.
Recognizing something as abuse seems to horrifically color even the memory of the actual happenings in some people. All conflicted feelings seem to dissiapate and the whole experiences of the past is seen as ugly and baneful. For other people, though, I feel that from the time of conscious recognition onward, your take on the actual experiences can be reshaped into the reality of what it really was while the possible conflicted feeling one may have had prior to this conscious awakening remain.
What is sick to me is what leads to these types of situations happenning in the first place. I don't judge you your sexual "fantasies?". Not sure if that is the word I would use. Sounds more like a type of reliving the experience complete with the orgasm you originally experienced. And people here have already offered wonderful insights into putting the reaching of orgasms during sexual abuse in its proper perspective.
Stay Strong, Survivor
michael Joseph
Registrant
Abuse effects us all, not always in the same way.
The important thing is for you to feel good about yourself and do things that help continue to make you feel good. It is not easy, and friends can help and I have met friends here over the years.
Poetry that I write has helped me more than I can say, and reading poetry is also a great help.
You keep working on yourself!
The important thing is for you to feel good about yourself and do things that help continue to make you feel good. It is not easy, and friends can help and I have met friends here over the years.
Poetry that I write has helped me more than I can say, and reading poetry is also a great help.
You keep working on yourself!
GF,
Welcome to the site. You share many feelings and thoughts with the rest of us. Unfortunately, perps uses some of that to keep us returning to them and to coerce us to keep their secret.
The pleasure you felt just means your body was performing as designed. Your current fantasy I think is just a way of taking control over the situation. Now you are an adult and would not be victimized in the same way. In fantasy you are simply returning to powerful memories of your earliest sexual experience. not an uncommon thing for many people. Only in the cause of survivors like us, those powerful memories are of abuse.
Keep coming back here and you will be able to find the strength to heal from this. healing starts once we admit to ourselves that we were abused and need to deal with the results in our lives.
Welcome to the site. You share many feelings and thoughts with the rest of us. Unfortunately, perps uses some of that to keep us returning to them and to coerce us to keep their secret.
The pleasure you felt just means your body was performing as designed. Your current fantasy I think is just a way of taking control over the situation. Now you are an adult and would not be victimized in the same way. In fantasy you are simply returning to powerful memories of your earliest sexual experience. not an uncommon thing for many people. Only in the cause of survivors like us, those powerful memories are of abuse.
Keep coming back here and you will be able to find the strength to heal from this. healing starts once we admit to ourselves that we were abused and need to deal with the results in our lives.
roadrunner
Registrant
GoFigure12,
Coming in late here, but again, welcome to Male Survivor and I hope you will stay with us. Just find your own pace and post on any issue or question you need to talk about. That's what we do here.
I can well imagine how this one is tearing you up:
For one thing, every boy wants and needs validation, affection and approval, and wow, to have an older boy show interest in you? That must have seemed, as you say, pretty cool. You were too young to understand that he wasn't interested in you as YOU - he was a predator. This oversight was NOT your fault.
And orgasms? What were you to understand from that? I remember when I was first being abused at the age of 10 and had my first orgasm with the abuser, I was amazed at the great feeling, even though I was also scared, embarrassed and very confused. So what did I do? I asked the abuser! I asked him because it feels good does that make all this okay? His answer was of course yes, yes, yes. What does this show? It shows that I was too young and innocent to understand what was happening or to recognize that I was being used. At 13, the same would have been true for you.
As Kenf has already said, the orgasms just show that you were (and are) a sexual being. We all are. You will find so many guys here who experienced the same thing and felt the same way about it until they discovered how common this is. A boy's body will so often respond to stimulation regardless of whether he wants or likes what is being done to him. This is just one example of what we can learn in a place where we can talk together with other survivors.
On your sexual fantasies now, it's useful to remember that our feelings don't always reflect the way things really are. You are in the first stages of recognizing yourself as a victim of abuse and understanding what was done to you. The old feelings you had as a boy remain pretty powerful, and when you fantasize as you masturbate you go for what's familiar: the sexual memories you have as a boy looking up to an older kid who paid attention to him. There's nothing to be ashamed about in that.
There are two particular themes I hope you will take away from my response to you here. First, NONE of the abuse was your fault. You may not see that right away, but it really is a truth that will become clearer and clearer to you over time. The second is this matter of feelings. Abuse teaches a boy a host of false lessons that fill him with guilt, shame, and a conviction of his worthlessness. But you did nothing wrong; the blame lies entirely with the abuser. You have nothing to be ashamed about; you didn't have real options and could not have understood what was happening to you. And finally, your role as husband and father, your worth as a man and the importance of your life are not touched in any way by what an abuser did to you.
This is a lot to take on board, I know, but it's all true, really!
Hang with us and see for yourself.
Much love,
Larry
Coming in late here, but again, welcome to Male Survivor and I hope you will stay with us. Just find your own pace and post on any issue or question you need to talk about. That's what we do here.
I can well imagine how this one is tearing you up:
This of course goes right back to the fact that you did experience orgasms with the older boy and saw the whole relationship in at least a partially positive light.
For one thing, every boy wants and needs validation, affection and approval, and wow, to have an older boy show interest in you? That must have seemed, as you say, pretty cool. You were too young to understand that he wasn't interested in you as YOU - he was a predator. This oversight was NOT your fault.
And orgasms? What were you to understand from that? I remember when I was first being abused at the age of 10 and had my first orgasm with the abuser, I was amazed at the great feeling, even though I was also scared, embarrassed and very confused. So what did I do? I asked the abuser! I asked him because it feels good does that make all this okay? His answer was of course yes, yes, yes. What does this show? It shows that I was too young and innocent to understand what was happening or to recognize that I was being used. At 13, the same would have been true for you.
As Kenf has already said, the orgasms just show that you were (and are) a sexual being. We all are. You will find so many guys here who experienced the same thing and felt the same way about it until they discovered how common this is. A boy's body will so often respond to stimulation regardless of whether he wants or likes what is being done to him. This is just one example of what we can learn in a place where we can talk together with other survivors.
On your sexual fantasies now, it's useful to remember that our feelings don't always reflect the way things really are. You are in the first stages of recognizing yourself as a victim of abuse and understanding what was done to you. The old feelings you had as a boy remain pretty powerful, and when you fantasize as you masturbate you go for what's familiar: the sexual memories you have as a boy looking up to an older kid who paid attention to him. There's nothing to be ashamed about in that.
There are two particular themes I hope you will take away from my response to you here. First, NONE of the abuse was your fault. You may not see that right away, but it really is a truth that will become clearer and clearer to you over time. The second is this matter of feelings. Abuse teaches a boy a host of false lessons that fill him with guilt, shame, and a conviction of his worthlessness. But you did nothing wrong; the blame lies entirely with the abuser. You have nothing to be ashamed about; you didn't have real options and could not have understood what was happening to you. And finally, your role as husband and father, your worth as a man and the importance of your life are not touched in any way by what an abuser did to you.
This is a lot to take on board, I know, but it's all true, really!
Hang with us and see for yourself.Much love,
Larry
roadrunner
Registrant
Steve (Sabata),
I think it's good you took the opportunity to get all that out - it's important to talk about things. You have sure been to hell and back; I can identify with the problems you had with drugs. But well done for all the progress in therapy.
I don't recall if you have ever stated your age, but I think no age is too late to try to include other people in our lives in a more meaningful way. It's a risk, sure, but so is everything else that's worth having. You might want to consider that all those negative feelings you still have about yourself come from the false lessons of abuse.
Can I make a suggestion? Defining yourself in terms of what abuse has taken away from you just has to be discouraging and self-defeating. Why not look at your life and ask what you would like to do, what you are good at and what your interests are, and seeing if some of these things can be achieved? The same thing will look different and BE different if it's something you really want to do, as opposed to being part of the bits the abuser didn't destroy.
Much love,
Larry
I think it's good you took the opportunity to get all that out - it's important to talk about things. You have sure been to hell and back; I can identify with the problems you had with drugs. But well done for all the progress in therapy.
I don't recall if you have ever stated your age, but I think no age is too late to try to include other people in our lives in a more meaningful way. It's a risk, sure, but so is everything else that's worth having. You might want to consider that all those negative feelings you still have about yourself come from the false lessons of abuse.
Can I make a suggestion? Defining yourself in terms of what abuse has taken away from you just has to be discouraging and self-defeating. Why not look at your life and ask what you would like to do, what you are good at and what your interests are, and seeing if some of these things can be achieved? The same thing will look different and BE different if it's something you really want to do, as opposed to being part of the bits the abuser didn't destroy.
Much love,
Larry
roadrunner
Registrant
Steve,
That loss of a sense of interests is one I can identify with. I was abused by a Scout and church leader who told me lies about how my father didn't love or want me, but HE would help me. As a teenager I worked to get good grades so that when my Dad finally discovered what had happened he would think twice before sending me to an orphanage (another idea stuck in my head by the abuser). As an adult I turned into a workaholic constantly struggling to achieve in order to compensate for my feelings of worthlessness. I also had many colleagues but few friends, since I didn't trust enough to let people get close to me. Between family responsibilities and work my time was entirely consumed. There was nothing at all left for myself, but that didn't seem strange to me since I had learned as a boy that my own needs weren't important.
Returning to my interests and hobbies, like music and reading just for pleasure, has been crucial to me for many reasons, not the least of which is that it's a way of reminding myself that my needs ARE important. This has also been my starting point for new friendships with other people with similar interests. That in turn helps me with trust issues.
So overall it has helped me to, as you put it, find the good in my life. Perhaps this would help you as well.
Much love,
Larry
That loss of a sense of interests is one I can identify with. I was abused by a Scout and church leader who told me lies about how my father didn't love or want me, but HE would help me. As a teenager I worked to get good grades so that when my Dad finally discovered what had happened he would think twice before sending me to an orphanage (another idea stuck in my head by the abuser). As an adult I turned into a workaholic constantly struggling to achieve in order to compensate for my feelings of worthlessness. I also had many colleagues but few friends, since I didn't trust enough to let people get close to me. Between family responsibilities and work my time was entirely consumed. There was nothing at all left for myself, but that didn't seem strange to me since I had learned as a boy that my own needs weren't important.
Returning to my interests and hobbies, like music and reading just for pleasure, has been crucial to me for many reasons, not the least of which is that it's a way of reminding myself that my needs ARE important. This has also been my starting point for new friendships with other people with similar interests. That in turn helps me with trust issues.
So overall it has helped me to, as you put it, find the good in my life. Perhaps this would help you as well.
Much love,
Larry