1in6 lie/agenda about orientation and abuse

I'm glad I deleted my earlier bits before things got heated...
The way people come across in threads is much more in how the person reading them takes them in. I didn't have to delete anything in any comment because I never got touchy or attacking or sought a fight. I started the entire thread due to a latent agenda that is beneath so much around orientation. That subject is much more touchy for others than it is for me.
 

wgrrcb

Registrant
There may be an "agenda", but your use of the words agenda, lie, etc. all have negative connotations and make it very clear that you disagree with, what I like to call, the "born this way" movement. The benefit of the idea that nothing throughout your life can change the gender or genders that you are attracted to is that people are less likely to be judgemental over something that is seen as a permanent feature. If, culturally, people think that attraction is caused by something environmental, or by serious incidents that may occur during a lifetime, it means that people think that something that is often viewed as a negative trait (homosexuality) can be fixed or changed by other incidents or environmental changes. I don't think that people want to be controversial, or to give any extra power to those who say that people can change their sexual orientation, which is why things like the "myths" come out. I personally have no idea if I was always attracted to men or if it was a result of occurrences throughout my life. I know that the type of men I find most attractive seem to be directly linked to experiences I have had. I've heard other people talk about how they're more attracted to one race or not attracted to certain races at all. I strongly believe that attraction and non-attraction in that sense is a cultural construct. I think, to a certain extent, being attracted to one gender or another or both is a cultural construct as well. I have no studies to back this up though, and I think it's a difficult and controversial topic to research.
 
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the "born this way" movement
Couldn't have said it better myself. It is a movement, short on fact, long on agenda. And many men come on to this site and specifically this forum who have real life experiences that contradict the "movement" and it's backers who say that you must agree and if you don't, you are "negative" (as you and others made me out to be).

Saying "experts" agree on CSA not affecting orientation (as the myth does) has an agenda of shutting down voices of men who explicitly disagree. This site has a forum called Sexual Identity Issues. It not called Born This Way. Hence, within this forum, men can discuss sexual identity issues and agree, not agree, question, etc with the born this way movement and be open about CSA affecting their orientation. Men can discuss their CSA and orientation within this forum and discuss sensitive cultural pressures against doing just that.

The negativity that you see is in your head and the negativity that has come into this thread has been those either threatened by the discussion or those who cannot tolerate it.

Saying something is an "agenda" - when it clearly is - is not negative even if it feels like it is. So many people these days mistake their feelings for facts and I'm not saying you are but it happens. I'm not negative to point out an agenda. I'm actually pretty positive and feel pretty good that I can stand up for myself and not feel angry or afraid to stand my ground.
 

Tom E.

Registrant
After reading this, I AM wondering now about my true sexual orientation. My csa was all male on male. I did "make out" and "pet" with 2 different girls during my highschool years.I first had intercourse with a woman at 21, during a threesome with her husband. I've mostly been with men, but I find some women a turn-on.. So I guess that makes me bisexual? My current long-term relationship is with my spouse, a man.
 

Free Radical

Registrant
Gosh Ed...maybe you are right, but you could put things a little more sweetly. I don't disagree w you, as far I know.

I don't know you well so i don't know if this is your normal manner or if you are defensive...but I will say that you are putting others on the defensive. Even though I think I agree w you, it takes some effort to look past your belligerence to the validity of your argument.

Sorry... Hope that isn't too blunt. If you don't agree, that's ok. Nothing personal man. Jus trying to process what is going on in this thread.

FR
 
Somehow you're seeing me on the defensive. Not true. It's others who come onto the thread seeking arguments. I am not trying to provoke. Others are simply provoked because I am not writing what they want and what they expect everyone to agree on.

It is so funny to watch people project their own stuff. I have people PM'ing me about this thread and there's even many people chiming in here and there who aren't discussing my tone. It is only a few people who want me to "tone" down.

I haven't attacked anyone. Sorry but nothing says I have to be "sweet". As a matter of fact, how many victims have probably been told exactly that???
 
Tom

Your simple addition was helpful to me. I may always wonder about my true orientation, I may not. I've thought I was gay, now I've been thinking I'm straight, maybe I'm bisexual, maybe I'll never know. Your post and your varied experiences and where you are now with your partner are not the same as mine but there's some similarities. I guess at the end of the day, if we do partner with someone, I look forward to someone I feel safe and comfortable with and a person I can be honest with about this stuff.
 

house

Registrant
Ed I appreciate this thread I love hearing from both sides and as long as there are not personal attack on individuals ( which I did not read any) the heated tone from anyone is ok with me from either side of the issue. Some of the tone comes from the mood we are in when we read something too. I find myself going back and reading something and finding it was in a much different tone than when I first read it because my mood changed.
 
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Tom E.

Registrant
I'm sure my abuse affected my sexual development & attitudes, but I have no real way of knowing what my sexuality would have been had none of it occurred.
 
IM damn sure the sexual abuse affected me in a huge way turned me into a sex addict and up till my mid 40s or so, i never did any same sex stuff, been with at least 200 women then pow this stuff broke through a barrier and for over 10 years i been recreating my abuse with other men its what helped send me back into therapy a couple of years ago, my T call's it trauma repitition, i re-create the abuse actions but this time i'm in control of when and how far it goes, no way i could be hetro for 45 years then all of a sudden change to being gay that just don't add up, i think there's a hidden agenda among certain people to hide the truth to fit what they believe or want other's to believe.
 
oic from what i've heard although i havn't tried it yet is EMDR therapy might be the way to go, but u have to have someone trained well in it, and i've been told it can get pretty intense check it out see if u think it may help u.
 
I agree with bb about EMDR, and want to add another recent discovery that's helped me. Sensorimotor Psychotherapy. Both seek a similar dynamic for memories, but to me, only EMDR seems proven to work on rerouting the circuitry of the brain. I'm doing both in the beginning. I started a couple months few months ago, but it's been on and off. My knee surgery put me back a few weeks. And there's time off for the therapist too, so I had a session this past Monday, and the next is July 3rd. I'm hoping to continue EMDR now that I've awakened the children that I had hidden away. It's a bit of a struggle to work on the children recovery, but she gave me some tools and I'm managing. I have an extensive thread and many other posts around MS that discuss EMDR.
 

Hoss

Registrant
men, or women, aren't necessary for pleasure. they are only necessary for reproduction. I'm attracted to both but not to all. I'm attracted to certain attributes and behaviors. I'm not attracted to a sex, no one is. otherwise you'd be attracted to everyone of that sex. attraction is about being attracted to people like self and repulsed by people that we find unattractive; which is something we usually dislike about self. you can't love another until you love yourself. because if you love one and dislike the other, it will be divisive relationship of either idolizing/demonizing.

when most people have a traumatic experience, they usually aren't attracted to repeating. in other words, people don't go out and attempt to have another automobile accident after having one.

science doesn't state that brain rewiring causes homosexuality anymore than it can cause heterosexuality. lesbians have been raped and that doesn't rewire them to seek out more heterosexual experiences.

if there is any kind of rewiring it would be of a negative nature in regards to trust and/or sexual intimacy towards a sex and not an attraction.

science looks at the data and interprets it solely on provable experiments. so yes, trauma does rewire the brain but it doesn't rewire the attraction. if anything it makes intimacy a harder thing to experience because of trust issues.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200306/our-brains-negative-bias
 
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jlc

Registrant
Interesting stuff Hoss. I've been contemplating this for a long time as it pertains to my situation. I was victimized by an older female cousin when I was 7. Once i got in my 20's I sought out guys for sex even though I was attracted to girls. I'm married now to a woman (bad choice) but I have just come to realize after having been married is that I don't have a desire or even enjoy sex with a woman. So your statement about trauma not rewiring the attraction rings true in my case. Attracted to women but don't want sex with them, but prefers sex with a man. I've been trying to understand how my experiences play into all of this madness. What you just said makes a hell of a lot of sense for me and my situation.
 
OF COURSE sexual abuse and premature sexual experiences play a SIGNIFICANT role in the development of orientation for many. It is a blatant lie to say otherwise and dismissive of so many who feel otherwise. That's the nasty part - the dismissiveness of voices that run counter to current ideology even though those voices are on here daily discussing SSA and its relation to abuse.

No one has to agree with me just like I don't have to agree with others. Everyone is entitled to his experience. But IDEAS like this on 1in6 being written conclusively as a myth dismisses an entire range of men who've experienced exactly what is supposedly a myth.
Thank you for posting this. I have read the 1 in 6 lie you quoted and agree with you that of course sex abuse plays a significant role... I felt dismissed by that "myth" - and am glad to know that I am not alone in having experienced exactly what is supposedly a myth.
Again, Thank you, EdfromNYC
 
Just wish either of you could cite evidence instead of ill founded oopinion based on your own preconceived notions based upon abuse. And really sad this sad thread has been resurrected to defame a survivor organization. Perpetrator apologists do nothing but cover the deeds of the perpetrators.
 
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