1in6 lie/agenda about orientation and abuse

[house]

Thank you for posting this. I have read the 1 in 6 lie you quoted and agree with you that of course sex abuse plays a significant role... I felt dismissed by that "myth" - and am glad to know that I am not alone in having experienced exactly what is supposedly a myth.
Again, Thank you, EdfromNYC

Hello I am Alive
Just wanted to let you know I value your opinion and like my experience with abuse, I believe your experience with abuse makes you the perfect most creditable person to comment on this subject

 

[rabbit93]

This is not a sad thread @manipulated . I think it's a very important subject for many here, I would say even for the vast majority. The evidence is everywhere on this site, there is already this tab called "Sexual Identity Issues". The creator of this discussion being a person just like us who was abused in your childhood and like thousands more here at Male Survivors said and think the same thing, so as much as you commented on some posts that I made myself and somehow helped me, I see in your comment the same censorship tactics used in public discussions about society today which is to say that "this" is sad or offensive to a certain group of people. Well my friend, I don't know what is offensive to others and I don't even have obligation to know because if it is to think or act like this nobody would say anything to anyone, and as if that was not enough of a problem, nowadays people need to show / explain the obvious (not wanting to sound arrogant, but There's no other way to say this) as I'm doing right now. There's a much-used comment here that I don't like at all, which is "we have to find our own truth", I don't want the truth about me and convenient to my feelings and emotions, I want and seek the objective truth and clear answers even if it hurts me. It seems to some here it is very difficult to admit that much of their behavior was created or derived from childhood abuse, and yes, I believe that one's sexual identity can be changed by abuse, not necessarily instantaneously, but over time a person who fights against SSA sometimes doesn't find a way out or a solution to it and ends up giving up and conditioning himself to that style of life. All things become routine, even things that you think are bad or are objectively bad. There are examples in the comments in this same thread, as if that were not enough, I discovered a while ago with an aunt of mine that my gay uncle told her that he was abused and raped by a neighboring father when he was a child, another example was a co-worker of one of my best friends told to him that he was repeatedly raped by his uncle or father, I don't remember correctly, and then as time went by he got used to it and ended up liking it and became gay.I don't think this thread defame this survivor organization, quite the opposite, it helps many others who think the same way, not because of what we say or feel but because it's something that a major part of us survivers went through and have in comom.There you have it, the evidence you needed.Well, unless I need a PhD.

 

[I'm Alive]

Hello I am Alive
Just wanted to let you know I value your opinion and like my experience with abuse, I believe your experience with abuse makes you the perfect most creditable person to comment on this subject

Thank you most sincerely. Thank you.

 

[I'm Alive]

.I don't think this thread defame this survivor organization, quite the opposite, it helps many others who think the same way, not because of what we say or feel but because it's something that a major part of us survivers went through and have in comom.There you have it, the evidence you needed.

Thank you. Thank you. As you said, my life is the evidence. I need no other "credential" but my real, lived experience. I am the one (or one of the ones) being "defamed" here - to call a survivor a "perpetrator apologist" is akin to calling a holocaust survivor a nazi apoligist. I, once again, feel like leaving this organization and deleting all my posts. I am dumbfounded by those words.

 

[MACH123]

Sexual Disorientation of Male Sexual Abuse Survivors

Sexual abuse disorients you; it does not orient you.

www.google.com

 

[Jaxson]

I am a gay man and I do believe it is something that one is born with.

 

[Ferguson]

The statement of faith "Sexual abuse disorients you: it does not orient you" is not one I have faith in.

 

[manipulated]

I’m Alive I am sorry my dislike of the nonsciene offered up in the very first thread post splashed over on you and any new people to the board...of course what perps did effects and affects us- in how we see ourselves-in what we feel - in how we question and develop. But the scientific community is well settled on the 1 in 6 position. A religious minority of often questionably credentialed leaders usually pushing the discredited agenda of conversion therapy and/or the self credentialed unrecognized by DSMIV and the American Psychiatric Association diagnoses of sex addict that is sucking life and help from so many survivors. In my case I was retraimatized when the certified Sex Addiction therapist required me to disclose details of my abuse in a Sexaholics Anonymous meeting - to a room I finally realized was full of perps. I do therefore get way too heated when organizations that base their help on peer reviewed studies and accepted fact are attacked without basis. Sometimes we do not know because we as individuals can not see the shore for the storm and following someone’s gut feeling instead of a compass is NOT in anyone’s best interest.

 

[KMCINVA]

Ed,

I wonder if by orientation did they mean straight, gay or bi. I believe SSA for some CSA survivor can be more of psychological and emotional issue wrapped in the web of CSA and not in orientation. With orientation one seeks a relationship that is both emotional, physical and satisfying. With SSA many if not most do not derive fulfillment or a sense of connection, rather it something that we were taught or learned from the CSA. Many with CSA see SSA as a way of recreating the abuse to gain control and not feel as though they are the victim. I may be looking at this too broadly and I may be wrong in not seeing SSA as an orientation in some CSA survivors but rather a sexual disorientatio for some CSA survivors.

Science is only beginning to explore sexual orientation. I believe at the end of the day, your orientation is with birth and disorientation can occur do to environmental factors that are yet to be understood on the brain and how one sees themselves after the abuse.

 

[Pollux]

This is not a sad thread @manipulated . I think it's a very important subject for many here, I would say even for the vast majority. The evidence is everywhere on this site, there is already this tab called "Sexual Identity Issues". The creator of this discussion being a person just like us who was abused in your childhood and like thousands more here at Male Survivors said and think the same thing, so as much as you commented on some posts that I made myself and somehow helped me, I see in your comment the same censorship tactics used in public discussions about society today which is to say that "this" is sad or offensive to a certain group of people. Well my friend, I don't know what is offensive to others and I don't even have obligation to know because if it is to think or act like this nobody would say anything to anyone, and as if that was not enough of a problem, nowadays people need to show / explain the obvious (not wanting to sound arrogant, but There's no other way to say this) as I'm doing right now. There's a much-used comment here that I don't like at all, which is "we have to find our own truth", I don't want the truth about me and convenient to my feelings and emotions, I want and seek the objective truth and clear answers even if it hurts me. It seems to some here it is very difficult to admit that much of their behavior was created or derived from childhood abuse, and yes, I believe that one's sexual identity can be changed by abuse, not necessarily instantaneously, but over time a person who fights against SSA sometimes doesn't find a way out or a solution to it and ends up giving up and conditioning himself to that style of life. All things become routine, even things that you think are bad or are objectively bad. There are examples in the comments in this same thread, as if that were not enough, I discovered a while ago with an aunt of mine that my gay uncle told her that he was abused and raped by a neighboring father when he was a child, another example was a co-worker of one of my best friends told to him that he was repeatedly raped by his uncle or father, I don't remember correctly, and then as time went by he got used to it and ended up liking it and became gay.I don't think this thread defame this survivor organization, quite the opposite, it helps many others who think the same way, not because of what we say or feel but because it's something that a major part of us survivers went through and have in comom.There you have it, the evidence you needed.Well, unless I need a PhD.

So you’re saying, with authority and evidence, that not only did my perps screw everything else up in my life they also made me gay and trans?

 

[MACH123]

So you’re saying, with authority and evidence, that not only did my perps screw everything else up in my life they also made me gay and trans?

I'm saying that it made me think I was those things. I'm not saying anything about anyone else, and deciding that this is this or that is that for others is at the root of the OPs original post.

Not only that but other groups or the generalized opinions is the society at large, especially back in the 70s and 80s, made it hard to think it could be anything else.

I would say the question I struggled with most was why wasn't I any of those things. I just did what I was taught. I did what my perpetrators showed me. I was so young.

But I hope I've found my peace. There are going to be people on either side of this and sadly the attention is going in the wrong direction IMHO. Rather than fighting amongst ourselves I wish we could concentrate on those who are suffering.

It's not like that though is it. So it is sad.

 

[rabbit93]

So you’re saying, with authority and evidence, that not only did my perps screw everything else up in my life they also made me gay and trans?

Well, I don't know your story, but I would say yes your life was screwed by your abuser or at least a very important part of it was, otherwise you wouldn't be here. Now talking about changing sexuality (sexual identity) I I explained in my previous comment very well, just go and reread it and I didn't say it happens to everyone without exception, I said it can happen. About the authority I have is the authority of the obvious. Look at this discussion, and some people who comment that they don't know if they would be gay or bi if they hadn't been abused, and probably would be different than they are now (unless all of them, including myself, are lying). If you think you were gay before the abuse or was born gay, so good for you that you don't have to go through what others are going through, but if you didn't get into it before the abuse then the answer to your question would probably be yes. There are other variables on this subject I could add but for now it is better to leave it as it is, and so I will wait for your answer because I already have an idea how it will be, maybe you will not answer, maybe take me by surprise with a very good argument that I would surely love.Thank you for the question and wish you a great day or night.

 

[Pollux]

I think it works like this, approximately 5% of the population identifies as LGBT. Let’s say 3% are LGBT males. 1 in 6 males are victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse, which is approximately 17% (some of which were abused by women but anyway). There would be a whole lot more LGBT males if CSA determined sexuality.

 

[Pollux]

I'm saying that it made me think I was those things. I'm not saying anything about anyone else, and deciding that this is this or that is that for others is at the root of the OPs original post.

Not only that but other groups or the generalized opinions is the society at large, especially back in the 70s and 80s, made it hard to think it could be anything else.

I would say the question I struggled with most was why wasn't I any of those things. I just did what I was taught. I did what my perpetrators showed me. I was so young.

But I hope I've found my peace. There are going to be people on either side of this and sadly the attention is going in the wrong direction IMHO. Rather than fighting amongst ourselves I wish we could concentrate on those who are suffering.

It's not like that though is it. So it is sad.

I think you are correct. The issue has a determining affect on survivors. If you go one way then it helps some and hurts others; the opposite if you go the other way. Sexuality isn’t so easily determined...

 

[Visitor]

I missed this conversation today, which, perhaps is a blessing in disguise. I too find this conversation sad but more because the original post is to me so opaque. I have no idea what is a myth and what is true. But I know a bit about psychology and the term Rorschach Test which seems very much at play on this thread. Folks who experience relief in concluding their acting out with men was the product of abuse and not a mark of latent now active homosexuality will read this conversation as meaning one thing, while those who are comfortable in their homosexuality interpret what is being said as disrespectful of their truth. This seems like a silly disagreement to be having when the reality we share and the pain we've all carried is so great. This reminds me a bit of the Apple/Windows disputes or the Nikon/Canon disputes I've witnessed on other forums.

What we know for sure is that we were all traumatized by what happened to us and we all carried wounds for a lifetime that we're working to heal with support from other men. The meaning we make about what happened is unquestionably our own and I for one, have no need to try to convince anyone about anything. I'm not interested in taking a political stance, or acting out my pain in arguments with kindred spirits. It saddens me that anyone believes their healing/recovery is dependent on dismissing anyone else's experience. This thread is not contributing anything to healing, only to creating divisions. Haven't we all experienced enough of that in our lifetime?

I'm moving on... there's nothing to see here.

 

[rabbit93]

I think it works like this, approximately 5% of the population identifies as LGBT. Let’s say 3% are LGBT males. 1 in 6 males are victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse, which is approximately 17% (some of which were abused by women but anyway). There would be a whole lot more LGBT males if CSA determined sexuality.

How many gay man describe their first contact with other older or adult males when they were kids or teens not as abuse but as a harmless experience.I would say that significant portion of the 3% of the lgbt males were abused but they just doesn't to want recognize it because it would go against the movement or because they can't stand the truth of the injustice they suffered. They don't want to admit that they were changed by external negative factors and whether it was him wanting to change into gay or that he was born with it. Again, what I said was that could happen and in some cases it happens like the of those of my uncle and my friend's co-worker, I didn't say that it always happens.

Now that it is instilled in you behaviors or thoughts that are gay is a fact and that by observation you see some people succumbing to what they don't want but see no way around it out of this torment and mental confusion. I believe (not have faith) that the number of abused men in childhood they unfortunately end up succumbing as in the example I gave is the case with a considerable number,and not simple minority in gay men of the LGBT community.What I disaggree with the 1in6 movement is that they say that sexual abuse can't change that sexualty of a victim in no way.

 

[Ferguson]

There is a real difference between the "born this way" belief and other beliefs. It is controversial. To say there is no room for discussion because "science" has decided is a reflection of the war of ideas going on outside this website. This is not the place for controversy but healing. However this place will, to some degree, reflect that battle raging outside. Most here do not want to bring the battle in here consciously but will unconsciously sometimes. My wounds, as for many, were not just sexual but mental, emotional by bullies who pushed their ideas into me without my choice - a rape of the mind. I'm healing and I do not expect this place to be free from all trouble. However sometimes I do slip back into speaking out of hurt when I see the same things playing out in here: "the battle is won - the scientific community (fake science from my vantage point) "is well settled on the 1 in 6 position. A religious minority of often questionably credentialed leaders usually pushing the discredited agenda of conversion therapy and/or the self credentialed unrecognized by DSMIV and the American Psychiatric Association diagnoses of sex addict that is sucking life and help from so many survivors.". I do not believe people are "born this way" and I am not here to bully. I am also not here to be that doormat I was trained to be. Heal well. Be well. Most of us want the best, as we perceive it, for each other. This can be a helpful thread if we learn from each other and give room for difference.

 

[Pollux]

This is a very heated discussion. Just keep in mind that some things you say can be hurtful to others.

 

[sardonis]

A new peer-reviewed study published 2 weeks ago may be interesting to people on this thread. It's the largest, international study ever conducted on the topic (with a sample space of just under half a million individuals). The study concluded that genetics only plays a minor role (8% to 25%) in the heritability of human sexuality, as a polygenic trait. The study also debunks an earlier claim that there was a gay gene in the Xq28 region of the human genome (that study just had 114 families as samples and was underpowered and invalid):

Perspectives on the complex genetics of same-sex sexual behavior

An international study finds that same-sex sexual behavior is influenced by both genes and non-genetic factors, with thousands of genetic variants that each have a small influence and together explain only a minority of the trait.

www.broadinstitute.org

No ‘gay gene’: Massive study homes in on genetic basis of human sexuality

Nearly half a million genomes reveal five DNA markers associated with sexual behaviour — but none with the power to predict the sexuality of an individual.

www.nature.com

No 'gay gene' can predict sexual orientation, study says

Sexual orientation cannot be predicted by a single "gay gene," new research indicates.

www.cnn.com

There's No Such Thing As a 'Gay Gene,' a New Study Argues

Genetics can't fully explain sexual activity

time.com

The 'Gay Gene' Is A Myth But Being Gay Is 'Natural,' Say Scientists

"The research reinforces the understanding that same-sex sexual behavior is simply “a natural part of our diversity as a species.”

www.forbes.com

Massive Study Finds No Single Genetic Cause of Same-Sex Sexual Behavior

Analysis of half a million people suggests genetics may have a limited contribution to sexual orientation

www.scientificamerican.com

(Researchers warn that this should not be taken to mean that conversion therapy works. Also, keep in mind that "born this way" is a political slogan, not a scientific law. It should not be blindly stated as scientific fact. One primary drawback of the study is that it was mainly conducted on people with European ancestry).

Sexual orientation "is influenced by genes but not determined by genes," said Brendan Zietsch, senior author of the study and a genetic researcher at the University of Queensland.

 

[Pollux]

A new peer-reviewed study published 2 weeks ago may be interesting to people on this thread. It's the largest, international study ever conducted on the topic (with a sample space of just under half a million individuals). The study concluded that genetics only plays a minor role (8% to 25%) in the heritability of human sexuality, as a polygenic trait. The study also debunks an earlier claim that there was a gay gene in the Xq28 region of the human genome (that study just had 114 families as samples and was underpowered and invalid):

Perspectives on the complex genetics of same-sex sexual behavior

An international study finds that same-sex sexual behavior is influenced by both genes and non-genetic factors, with thousands of genetic variants that each have a small influence and together explain only a minority of the trait.

www.broadinstitute.org

No ‘gay gene’: Massive study homes in on genetic basis of human sexuality

Nearly half a million genomes reveal five DNA markers associated with sexual behaviour — but none with the power to predict the sexuality of an individual.

www.nature.com

No 'gay gene' can predict sexual orientation, study says

Sexual orientation cannot be predicted by a single "gay gene," new research indicates.

www.cnn.com

There's No Such Thing As a 'Gay Gene,' a New Study Argues

Genetics can't fully explain sexual activity

time.com

The 'Gay Gene' Is A Myth But Being Gay Is 'Natural,' Say Scientists

"The research reinforces the understanding that same-sex sexual behavior is simply “a natural part of our diversity as a species.”

www.forbes.com

Massive Study Finds No Single Genetic Cause of Same-Sex Sexual Behavior

Analysis of half a million people suggests genetics may have a limited contribution to sexual orientation

www.scientificamerican.com

(Researchers warn that this should not be taken to mean that conversion therapy works. Also, keep in mind that "born this way" is a political slogan, not a scientific law. It should not be blindly stated as scientific fact. One primary drawback of the study is that it was mainly conducted on people with European ancestry).

Sexual orientation "is influenced by genes but not determined by genes," said Brendan Zietsch, senior author of the study and a genetic researcher at the University of Queensland.

I don't think anyone is promoted that there is a gay gene. There are a lot of factors that shape sexuality. It could be related to hormones in utero.